A Conversation with Tomo from Mongolia

BatUlzii Molomjamts (Tomo) is a truly globalist citizen of a country that has, for most part, remained on the wrong side of a news blackout. People of the world know so little of Mongolia that Ulan Bator (the capital of Mongolia) remains a lost city on many maps. Much of that stems from its geographical dice rolling in a curious way and placing it, almost askance, between Russia and China! When I met Tomo about a month ago during his and my sabbatical from our jobs to the Eact West Centre, Hawai'i, the USA, I found in him a sharp, educated mind wedded to the fortunes of his country. In his short life of 29 years, he has served at the President's office in Mongolia and at Moscow as a Foreign Exchange trader. I really had a tough time deciding which was a more risky high trapeze game. So I chose, instead, the easier route of interviewing him for this blog. Here goes the same:

Tomo: My name is Tomo BatUlzii

Pinaki: Give us a primer on the history of Mongolia since you were born in '80s

Tomo: During the 1980s, Mongolia was under the direct rule of the Soviet Union, although the country itself was an independent; and a member of the UN. After Gorbachev's Perestroika, we experienced the same as other former Soviet allies, a velvet revolution in 1991, which brought down the Communist regime. In 1992 we had our first free election and 1996 Democratic Coaltion came to power which once again completely brought down the Communists. However in 2000, unfortunately, the Communist party came to power.

PB: Go on pls...

TB: That is all about politics. When it comes to economics then it is a bit another story. Many people - those who visited Mongolia in the mid 1990s - argue that Mongolia was a such poor country...... However what should we expect from a country that has experienced severe economic crisis in the mid 1990s, when the inflation was 67% per year and the GDP per person was about 500 USD. However since 1996 the economic condition in the country, slowly but surely, is improving due to the effective economic reforms conducted by the Mongolian Government and partly due to the high prices of copper which is the main source of Mongolian export revenue. Since 2000 the country is experiencing 7-8% of Economic growth, now GDP per person according to the World Bank database is about 2000 USD which is not much but much better than it was 1990s. What else?

PB: What do young people like you and your friend's think about the Communist days?

TB: It is a kind of difficult question however young people like myself in my country we often call ourselves Pepsi generation generally have positive thinking and attitude towards our Communist past. For example personally i believe that the Soviet Union did a lot to improve the economic situation in our country ranging from the construction of the main Mongolian Industries to the improvement of ordinary people's life like massive education (99% of the Mongolian population is literate). In terms of security the Soviet did a lot also for the country first of all securing the most volatile part of our border with China and provided military munitions. It is believed that the Soviet Union generally spent about 11 billion USD in Mongolia.

PB: But Tomo, you did not have national sovereignty at the time of Soviet domination; lacked civil liberties, and had to act as the buffer nation between two giant neighbours, the Soviet Union and China...That could not have helped your national interests?

TB: That is true. Ok.. however let me be clear we did not have civil liberties, we did not have enough sovereignty to act on the global stage and we were a buffer zone between Soviets and Chinese. But what we did have was an independence from brutal China and most importantly economic development, gradual rise of the population (our population declined severely because of the Chinese ethnic cleansing) and demarcated border. That was the most important thing for our country and for our leadership at that time.

PB: What do you mean by Chinese 'ethnic cleansing?' How have the Chinese treated your country?

TB: when I say ethnic cleansing I mean deliberate physical execution of the Mongolian people by Chinese occupiers and subsequent attempt to Chinaise the entire population of Mongolia. It was estimated that before the brutal, military-led and illegal occupation of our country by China our population was about 6-8 million people. However when we gained our independence in 1921 a subsequent census revealed that our population was merely 1.5 million people. I can just describe Chinese treatment of the Mongolian People in one word- Brutality.

PB: That was pre-Communist, imperial China, Tomo, imbued with the sense of Middle Kingdom. Isn't it?

TB: Not sure what do you mean?

PB: What i mean is that the leaders of the "brutal" Chinese occupation you referred to were imperialists of the pre-communist times. Weren't they?

BM: Yes they were however we should not forget that history repeats itself. Current Chinese Leaders are not very different from their ancestors. The founding father of the Mongolian nation Chinggis Khaan once said that Mongolia will never have a normal relationship with China and always beware of it whatever nice things it does. Thus it is in our blood to be extremely suspicious of China whatever it tries to be.

PB: Yes...but the Mongols themselves did not exactly treat the rest of the world with great compassion when they were marauders...isn't it? How do you view your own history? Do you share the sense of greatness that Chengiz Khan had created?

TB: I do not agree with you and it seems it is highly inappropriate to use the word and meaning of marauders. Because we should not forget that there are not any substantial evidences that would support the claim that Mongols killed millions and were marauders. Lets be honest Mongolian Empire which lasted 200 years did a lot of good things for the World History. Mongolian empire united Russian Principles which laid the foundation of the Russian Empire and Mongols for the first time in History united Chinese as a one state. Mongolian empire for the first time introduced the paper money and secured the trading roads between East and West. I do share the greatness created by our founding father. What he did was tremendous and completely altered not just Mongolian history, but the history of the Eurasia.

PB: Well, from an Indian perpective, we at the receiving end of repeated Mongol invasions did no really have the happy experience that you enunciate. So in modern perspectives, how do you expect the Mongolians to prove as worthy ancestors of Chengiz Khan?

TB: I think in India there was a state known as MOGUL whose founder was closely related to Chinghis Khaan. What do you mean worthy? Could you clarify the question?

PB: In India, a great Muslim empire was formed in 1400s that was called the Mughal empire, which was really of Central Asian orgin with strains of Mongol ancestry...What I mean by the question whether the new generation of Mongolians have a belief that they need to live up to the greatness that Chengiz Khan had achieved in his lifetime? How does that shape their worldview?

TB: In modern Mongolia... and the younger generation no doubt worship Chinggis Khaan and it is also a part of the Mongolian Government strategy that younger people should not forget its history. For example in our country we have products known as Chinggis Khan, airports, restaraunts, casinos to baby names as Temuujin (real name of Chinggis Khaan). Also if you visit Mongolia you would find our Government Palace surrounded by 9 Great Mongolian Khan's monuments from Chinggis to Khubilai. Without Chinggis Khan we can not imagine ourselves as a nation. Because he was the founder of Mongolia. However we also do understand that it would be wrong to be very much obsessed with our History and more focus on the economic development of the nation because without economic development and prosperity at the end of the day - how great the Mongolian Empire was - does not make much difference in an age of Globalization.

PB: From that perspective, you had earlier described the return of the Communists to power as "unfortunate." Considering that you worked in the office of one such President, what do you feel about the ideology?

TB: When I mentioned about the unfortunate return of the communists in 2000 I was thinking about my perspective. what I am trying to argue is that at that time I belonged to one financial group within the Communist party, however in 2000 another financial group from the same party came to power. Thus i said unfortunate. To be honest it is difficult to say it was a communist party it looks more like a party of the financial oligarchs where ideology does not make any difference.. In Mongolian Politics there is no ideology at all. As long as you share the common business interests.

Pinaki Bhattacharya[3:20:37 PM]: So is the public sector totally dominated by these oligarchs?

TB: Yes, There are 3 and 4 Huge Financial Oligarchs in my country which totally control the Mongolian Politics and completely marginalized not only public sector but most importantly made public very reluctant to participate in politics

PB: And they call themselves Communists? So where do you see your country going in the next couple of decades or so? I know you want transformation for your country. What kind of transformation should that be?

TB: They actually call themselves social democrats. In my perspective Mongolia is in a right direction in terms of its economic and political developments. The interesting thing about these oligarchs is that they are not only interested in their own well beings but also bring economic development, good governance and more or less economic prosperity. As a result we are witnessing stable economic development and political stability, which encourages MNCs to invest into Mongolian Mining sector and processing industries. As of my personal point of view than i would like to see my country not a country with parliamentary system but more with the unlimited power of the president and managed democracy the same as we have currently in Russia

PB: And how do you foresee the region...Do you expect that a regional formation involving Russia-China-India would help Central Asia and Eurasia to stabilise, curbing individual interests to a more a accomodative approach?

TB: That is not going to happen. Triple alliance between Russia-China- India is complete nonsense and impossible. Too many vested interests, too much suspicion between them. Russia has an excellent relationship with China because it wants to contain US in the world and increase its profile, while China has more economic interests with Russia in particular energy. About Russia and India, then let's be honest; Russia has difficulties with Pakistan and India is a huge military market for Russia. As of China and India then there is a huge gap of mutual trust between these countries. As of my perspective about Asia Pacific then i am very much convinced that the US presence in the region is the only stabilizing force whatever other countries say about it. In my opinion in 30 years time there will be NATO like military alliance in the region consisting of Japan, US, Mongolia, Australia, Taiwan and other countries which primary goal will be to contain increasing China and possible oil fired, Russia. Finally we should be bear in mind the fact that nation states whatever happens always would push forward their national interests.

PB: Tomo, you are a student of economics and a foreign exchange trader. How long do you think the USA can continue to appropriate the savings of other nations for its own current expenditure, thus artificially retaining the value of the dollar all because it was the victorious power of the WW II and thus could create an economic structure that served its and its Western allies' interests? Also, is dollar truly as valuable and solid as Gold as Charles Morrison of the East West Centre said the other day?

TB: Last week during our BRIC Discussion Group we discussed about this issue. Why so many countries heavily invest into the US and thus artificially retain the value of the USD. The answer was rather simple because despite all of its problems the US economy and US Treasury bonds remain the safe haven for the Global Investors. As a matter of fact I could not help thinking the same because as a man who works in the Investment Bank I think there is not any other way in the short term to invest into the US economy. The recent problems in the US sub prime problems (mortgage loans) once again substantiated that point. In other words many investors when they felt the uncertainty in the global financial market the first thing what they did was to start buying the US Treasury bonds and heavily sell the bonds of other countries. As for your second question then I do not think that in the foreseeable future there will be another alternative currency that would completely reshape the global finance. You may argue how about EURO, GBP however despite their significance they still remain regional currencies. Since we can not predict what will happen in future however it seems to me that we can not rule out the possbility of the gradual decline of the USD in the global transactions. Finally I am not sure about whether the USD retains the same value as gold. To some extent it is 'no' (as it was after the 2ww)

PB: Don't you feel that the US economy is inherently weak because of its huge current account deficit, its trillion dollar fiscal deficit, low economic growth levels? Can this kind of an economy maintain an international economic architecture for very long? After all, isn't there a limit to its ability to exploit the resources of other economies for its own financial/capitalist gains

TB: I have to stress your questions are highly provocative. Anyway, yes, indeed the US economy is rather weak, however in the short term i mean in the next 20-30 years we should not worry much about it, however in the long term the current US economic development is highly unsustainable. I wonder what would happen if China, Russia, Brazil, India, EU states stop buying the UST bonds and thus subsidising the US economy on the one hand. However on the other hand once again in the short term many countries simply have no choice rather than maintain US economy because heavy expenditure of the FOREX reserves would simply ignite hyperinflation and possible collapse of their economies.

PB: Tell us the secret of your success? I know your father is a small merchant in Mongolia. You obviously belong to a normal middle class family. How did you end up at the President's office?

TB: May be my family background helped me much. In particular my grandmother (she is a Japanese) and my father always pushed me hard to succeed when I was young. Generally speaking there is no magic formula which pushed me up. However I believe that the route to your success is the non stop working and learning as much as you can and respect your seniors. As of the of the Office of the president than I was just lucky enough to know the person who belonged to the inner circle of the previous president and he asked me to join the office as an intern at first (after passing exams) and than get a full time job there.

PB: Thank you very much for sparing your time to do this interview, Tomo.