A Talk Across

Ko Siu Lan (30) is a project officer with an international charity organisation and works out of Hong Kong. The charity is involved in rural development. She is married to a Frenchman who lives in Beijing and works as a journalist.

Pinaki: Hei...ready
Ko Siu Lan: yes

PB: Ko, you spent your teens in Hong Kong under British control, now it is back with China. You are still young with young memories. Are there any changes in the lifestyles?

Ko: Hope so...I always thought I am about 900 years old

Ko: Me, very personally speaking or in general people around me?

PB: Both...

Ko: People around me: more and more people start to learn Mandarin
Hong Kong people are well-known for their horrible Mandarin..and yes, many couldn't even speak a word before but now...Mandarin is almost a must..and many start to station in big cities in China to work, Beijing, Shanghai...many expats left Hong Kong, particularly the British people, in the civil servants team, the police...
more and more news about China start to appear in the media. Of course this is true for all countries as importance of China, but in Hong Kong, we start to see 'strange' news about the President of China is visting so and so country...the hostage from China in Nigeria returing..and the reaction of the Chinese governemnt and their family..this kind of news would coure never appear on the TV screen or newspaper before in Hong Kong. 'Patriotic news' i would call them

Ko: And then of course we have increasing 'mainland Chinese' people among us in daily lives - both as tourists or as new immigrants in fact mainland tourists have become the biggest group of tourists for Hong Kong and huge income they bring together with all the changes in the shops where you can pay with the Chinese currency...many salesmen now have to speak Mandarin..and then of course complains about how mainland Chinese are stupid, rude, impolite, dirty, noisy...blah blah blah

Ko: And for the new immigrants - hmm. Only recently mainland women have been barred from entering into Hong Kong. Because the discontent of the Hong Kong people is so high because they have occupied too much resources in the public hospitals. Hong Kong immigration department started a new policy of stopping a 7-month pregnant mainland women to enter into Hong Kong so that they could not give to birth in the public hospitals..they pay or sometimes dont even pay..and then the babies are Hong Kongers from the minute they are born.

Ko: And Hong Kong people are saying that they are paying taxes for the mainland Chinese people to enjoy as parasites all these benefits
This is only a tip of the ice-berg..in fact this Hong Kong vs mainland Chinese identity discourse have been going on in Hong Kong for several decades ever since Hong Kong became more of a city

Ko: I think Hong Kong people really need this mainland Chinese reference. They ridicule it to assure their own 'Hong Konger' identity
but do not forget that in fact all/99% Hong Kong people are mainlanders or their parents came from the mainland...one of my British friends joked with me a few weeks ago saying that he doesn't understand why all these Hong Kong people are so hostile towards the mainland immigrants now..he said 'dont forget you guys fucking arrived only 10 minutes ago, and now you were lauging/complaining unsympathetic about 'your' people who arrived just a bit later'

PB: Ah, the poor cousins, only they are not very poor anymore. Is Hong Kong still an entrepot to China...or is it getting more integrated with the mainland...in terms of the people's thinking processes...

Ko: What do you man in terms of pople's thinking processes?

PB: What i mean is: China is undergoing enormous changes and modernising at a fast pace...Do the people of Hong Kong look at this phenomenon with interest?

Ko: Of course..they participate...many Hong Kong people are part of the development..you know the biggest foreign investment in China comes from Hong Kong/Taiwan businessmen?Many Hong Kong people in all sectors now work at managerial levels in China..helping to set up the management/human resource/company structure to get the train going
before hong kong is much of a entrepot...they help to transfer things in/out of china, so Hong Kong is not on the train but now..Hong Kong people are working on the train of the dvelopment, they directly participate even in the NGO field..like myself or many other Hong Kong people I know..we worked in China as well..and helping to train and nurture many devlopment workers to continue the battle/rescue; not to mention the pesonal investment of Hong Kong people. Many are buying flats in China and investing in Chinese shares everytime there are new Chinese company shares..Hong Kong always have 30-40 times biddings for it

PB: Ok Siu Lan...you are embarking on what is considered an extremely auspicious year...the YEAR OF THE GOLDEN PIG. How important are such occasions for Chinese...even after almost 60 years of rule by the communist party?

Ko: You mean the Chinese New Year...

PB: Yes.

Ko: It is an important time of the year- for families to gather, for everybody to take a break- workers, businessmen, bosses..and to just party and have fun

PB: I am referring to the religious connotations.

Ko: What do you mean?

PB: What I mean is that in new China, religion has again come out of the closet despite the rule of the Chinese Communist Party? How do you see the phenomenon?
Ko: When you say New China- you mean China after the Cultural Revolution? or ...?

PB: Yes...current China

Ko: Religion came out of the closet- perhaps I am too young to answer this question...because as far as my impression reaches...religion has never realy been in the closet in my days, I was born at the end of the Cultural Revolution, and even then, we celebrate all kinds of festivals with Budddist ceremonies

Ko: In the south of China, many religious practices actually remained and continued ...like in my hometown, like here in Hong Kong..and I cannot really comment on other parts of China because i did not experience that.

Ko: But I always have the impression that for Chinese, religion is more about practicality and bringing fortune rather than about spirituality

PB: Do you feel proud for being a citizen of a country with most dynamic economy of the world?

Ko: Proud is not a good word to descibe my feeling
Ko: In fact i do not know how to descibe my feelings-in fact, i cannot yet make sense of what is going on and what is going to happen and I cannot really say I feel ....

Ko: But I can tell you I feel happy, sad, worried, angry, ridiculous, at the same time. China is too big and too fast. As I told you before. It is a big train going at ever increasing speed, no one knows really where it is going, no one can really stop it. the leaders just want to make sure that it is going, and they try more or less to steer its direction and pave the railway for it, but even they dont know where its going to go and even they cannot stop this train. Many things are happening on the train. and only very little is done to minimize the harm it is doing...because no one yet have the time and patience and vision to see that it is going to slow down or even burst the train if they dont try to pay attention to the harm it is causing now...how so very sad this is ..how so very short sighted and so short memory of human beings' are.

PB: Siu Lan, you are raising certain doubts about the development process that I do not witness in the statements of the Chinese leaders? Is there scope for doubts about China's path in China anymore? The reason I am asking you this question is because, in India like in many other developing nations, talking about the Chinese experiment has become a byword for a certain process which imitates the Chinese path of development.

Ko: Certainly..time and again, NGOs and scholars are raising dobuts and alarms about these. I am sure the leaders are aware of it, in fact, more than anyone, but as I told you..I think their main priority is still now to keep the train going first..but I also believe they are slowly trying to see..if there is any spare resources to minmise the harm or even try tosee further so to control better then train..but all this takes time..and politics..and the big train is controlled and guarded by so many officials..that many of them would just want to eat and rob from the train without caring for the peple and what harm it is doing..that is one of the main issue in my opinion

PB: Ko I remember that when we had met last, our conversation had veered towards 1989 and Tienanmen Square...Your eyes had misted over when we had discussed Zhao Ziyang's role...Now he is dead...do your eyes still mist over at his memory?

Ko: My eyes still mist over when i think about June Fourth but not over a particular person. (Btw, did we really talk about that?)

PB: Yes we did. I am trying to understand this in the perspective of current China in terms of the involvment of youth in the China's development...the people of Tienanmen agitatiiuon of 1989 are in their forties now...are they involved more or less in the economic development process?

Ko: Thats an interesting question- to tell you the truth, I don't really know. Because..it is almost a taboo question- I often go to Beijing and know many chinese people, but it is simplya taboo question to ask 'what did you do on June Foruth or Where were you?' We just simply dont ask this question.

PB: Ko, my question is whether the people who protested against the regime then are involved now fully in the development process in the most productive times of their life? You must have had experiences of that.

Ko: Yes or No..I don't know how to define 'involved fully' in the development process- I know some NGO workers have ben very active before..and some businessmen as well..but whether they are 'fully' involved, its hard to define. And who has and who hasn't protested against the regime..no one knows..I don't ask them, and only if they tell me I know. and believe me, people seldom talk about this. Some young kids in China have no clue at all what is June Fourth.

PB: Well, you are the bridge generation...aren't you?

Ko: What is that?

PB: You are the generation with the memory of Cultural Revolution, Tienanmen in 1989 and the prosperity of the 1990s...They should pick up their cues from you.

PB: You have visited India. How does India compare with China?

Ko: As I told you before- India is like a grandma and China is like the son for me. Grandma is full of ancient momories, colors, incidents, fairy tales and may be all sorts of funny exotic things in the house, always excited but sometimes afraid to go there, but always wish to spend a bit longer time yet do not. China - I want to do things for it..its growing, very very fast, and so many things still needs fixing, and finger pointing..and pampering..

PB: Ko I remember you telling me the flutter you caused when appearing in a bikini in a play you people were staging in a village in Orissa. Would you have the same reaction now in a Chinese village? Though you need to inform me in advance where you are going to put up such a show so that I am in the audience partaking the pleasure.

Ko: Did anyone every tell you that you are a complete different person in writing? You seemed so timid and shy and uptight when we met last time..or is it just because we met the first time?

PB: I am sure you are aware of the eastern layered personalities...its the onion approach...works all the time...but you did not answer my question.

Ko: I would say you need to break your computer and live more truly in the real thing

Ko: Answering your question, I dont think so. My husband was just showing me a report or some video about a funeral in a Chinese village where they actually stage striptease show to attract more people to come to a funeral (for the prestige!) and that middle aged women were dancing to their last peice of clothes off in front of compete strangers: adults kids men, women...this is truly eye opening for me! And the business for this was so good (there is a boss running this funeral striptease show, of course!) that they cannot even go to all their orders....i would not even have any eyebrows raised for my performance ,i bet.

PB: Thanks Siu Lan. We had a lovely conversation. Please remember grandmother.

Ko: How can i forget? Its one of my favorite places in the world and still so many yet to be explored. Only next time, you have to take me to a better bar! :)

PB: Sure thing.